First off, to those not in the radio &/or TV biz, "Backtiming" is when a piece of music or song starts at a certain time in order to finish at an exact time, or "mark".

In radio, some songs (especially on satellite-fed networks) are backtimed so the songs end EXACTLY at the top of the hour, or 5-10 seconds before to allow for a legal ID.

Anyhoo, back to game shows:

What shows would start rolling their theme music so that the music's ending would match the official ending of the show? And which shows did it "all-natural" -- without switching to a second music source which provided the last few seconds of the theme, like "Bullseye" often did?

The original "Jeopardy" and "Who, What or Where"

All of the current syndie games backtime their themes...at least I think all of them do, not sure about TP: AP.

From memory:
-Pitfall
-The Gary Kroeger season of Newlywed Game
-TTTT00
-Russian Roulette

And I think most British shows do so as well. Personally, I'm not a fan of the practice, but that's just me.

Most of the Nick shows. I know DD and "Make the Grade" for sure. Believe "Finders Keepers" did it as well.

Wait...I'm pretty sure they just played the Finders Keepers theme in a loop until the credits were done, and even then, the credits' ending didn't match up with the theme's "ending"

But then again, I could be wrong.

I seem to remember that as well, but it's been 20 years since I've seen Finders Keepers. Add Get the Picture, Arcade, and Guts to the list.

From the many episodes I saw on Nick Games and Sports, the Eure episodes were backtimed, but the syndie Toffler episodes weren't.

I'm pretty sure you can exclude Legends of the Hidden Temple

/ObGS: You can probably still hear Dee Bradley Baker (voice of Olmec) on Nick somewhere doing voices for another show

He does a few voices on SpongeBob (Wiki says Squilliam Fancyson and Bubble Bass).

/Also, he's Klaus the fish on American Dad

I'm told Trebek HR did this for a few weeks in the summer of 1979, as well.

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")

The last few weeks of "The Big Showdown" did. "Hollywood's Talking" also did. And I believe "Take a Good Look" also was a culprit with its original swingtime theme.

The last episode of Dream House in '84 did! Too bad NBC had to cut most of it off with their "coming up next" voice-over promos and background music.

Most of the Canadian shows produced in Montreal for CTV did, but the ones from Toronto and Vancouver usually didn't.

Ouicksilver and Free 4 All both did this IIRC.

If Merv Griffin's Crosswords hasn't been mentioned, that's one as well.

It does, but I wouldn't be surprised if they add it in post on that one because IIRC there're no audience nats during it.

Speaking of editing in post, they once had to re-send an episode because it was originally sent with a few seconds of it, that was supposed to have been a cutaway shot, reading "MEDIA OFFLINE".

I guess this thread begs another question:

which bugs you more - never hearing the end of a theme; or never hearing the beginning?

Usually the end. Though here's a twist: for years, I would try desperately to hear the end of the Hollywood Squares theme. Now, it's not hearing that piccolo strain in the middle that bugs me.

Regarding the original thread, did the Jim Perry Sale of the Century have a backtimed closing theme? Or did they use a different piece of music for their "Reg Grundy Production" signature.

For me, it was a treat to hear more of the ending when they had to stretch or do the long credit roll. You would always hope that they'd reach the end of the theme.

I always disliked the later Bob Stewart shows (or was it the Bob Cobert compositions, since it would happen on Blockbusters as well???) for the fact that they would always "restart" the themes as soon as they would come back from the promotional considerations.

Don't make me stand behind my lectern and explain what "begging the question" really means, goldarnit.

It was a different piece of music. It came in at different points in the song depending on the length of the credits.
Burst in with a thud it did while Jay Stewart or Don Morrow was informing the waiting world that the preceding was a Reg Grundy Production.
Likewise, this was the practice on Scrabble and on Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak.
Then, sometimes, they'd rejoin the program's theme in progress for a few seconds if time allowed.

No on the backtiming, and they used the standard RG fanfare during the closing.

I liked that too - unfortunately it didn't happen often enough!



I wonder who would have made the decision to do that - the music supervisor, or the producer/director? FWIW, there was an episode of Blockbusters where they didn't restart - it was part way through the 20-win streak of the mother-daughter team. I remember seeing it on GSN and was surprised that they let the whole them play through. It was long credit day that day too. If they did it once, why couldn't they have done it more often?

I always liked it when the music supervisors cued up some of the music to different spots - sometimes you'd get to hear a different part of the theme. Even better when they forgot to recue the cart and it played through to the end - that didn't happen often enough either!

That was the one thing that annoyed me about the first season of 80s Pyramid. I always wanted to hear that sweet bass part towards the end, and would be disappointed when it would cut back to the beginning before hitting that part of the theme.

One of the cool things about the game show checkerboards of the '70's was that since every show was once (or twice) a week, you'd usually get a full credit roll and hear more of the theme on each show. I didn't know the respective themes had an end until I saw James "Price" and Cullen "Pyramid."

Another thing I remember on "The Big Showdown" was that very occassionaly the closing theme would end and the music would segue to the slightly slower main theme. On those days, you knew you'd see the full credits (and hear an ABC announcer promoting that night's "Barney Miller.)

It happened once on a 1979 syndie FF...as luck would have it, there was a full credit roll that day, so the theme almost reached the end, something that hadn't happened since they started looping the first part of the theme after the first week.

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")

Except for the first few weeks! The earliest shows were not backtimed nor were they restarted after the commercial plugs. As a result, we ended up hearing just last few seconds of the middle section, and the last part repeated until the show ended. On full-credit days that meant maybe 2 to 3 repeats of the last part.

Bill

USA's version of Chain Reaction had the chance to make it to the end several times but those plans went down the ewtrou as they'd start the theme somewhere in the middle, get near the end, then re-start near the middle again....multiple times. I remember thinking, "Aw! Why?"
1989-90 Jackpot! pulled that re-start jazz, too.

I never heard the entire theme for $25K/$100K Pyramid until I heard it on Davidson's version....I honestly thought it was a new part added to the theme, the first time I heard it (the section at the very end, before it starts over).

It always sounded that Marshall's Hollywood Squares theme (the one that made it to the game show cd) was backtimed so when the credit roll was over, they were always at the part of the the theme when the vocalists first started to sing the da-da-da's, even though they were never at the end.

No, HS was never backtimed. Always started from the beginning, whichever theme they were using.

You're right about that, but there several episodes in the mid-late '70s where it did reach its conclusion. I also remember a Secret Square game where it was cued to the wrong spot during the prize description and it reached the conclusion there too.

I'll have to agree. As someone who used to hover over the HS closing credits like a hawk, in hopes of hearing the end of the theme music, only once did I ever hear the modified "da da da" with the vocals on TV. This was because they cued the music that time so they only played the first/original "da da da" part once instead of the usual two times, and I knew I was in for something good when they were already into the keyboard part when the onscreen text message came on (this is that message that appeared against a steady background; not sure if it was the infamous "bluff answers" disclaimer, or "The following companies have furnished prizes to the production company...")

Also exactly once, I did in fact hear the "da da da-da da. Daaaaaaaa..." ending on the show, albeit cut off quickly. But that time, they somehow managed to avoid both the vocalized "da da da" part and the modified two-measure bridge between the two iterations of the opening strain (i.e., "da-da, hawww, da da-da da-da"; don't you just love onomatopoeia?) which ends in a rapid string of snare drum beats.

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but for those who may not know, the full second theme to The Hollywood Squares---piccolo strain and all---is at this link: http://www.tvpmm.com/documents/54.html (#3 on the left).

I'm about to lose my job on account of screaming "YES!" repeatedly at the top of my lungs in the office!

Wow. Thanks for the update... has this been posted in the A/V club yet?

WOW! Are those tracks clean or what?? Plus this full version doesn't repeat the first 'verse'. This is yet another early Christmas Gift for all of us on TVPMM.

Also worth noting is the game/match win cue!!

Sounds like there is still some hope for the original "Storybook Squares" theme to surface someday.

I just did.

/A theme find like this deserves multiple mentions
//What's next, the Whew music?

That sound you would here would be coming directly from my bunk.

/literally

That's what I'm hoping for...especially the closing theme please! :)

What I can't understand is why they edited the theme in the late '70s in the first place. I know that sometimes shows will use slightly different music cues to spice things up a bit, but the edit did nothing for it. It just repeated one section and took out another. On the GSN CD you can even hear where the edit is. I don't get it.

Oh well...it's great to hear the full theme...finally!

In some of the many episodes I have in my collection, there seemed to be at least 2 "edited" versions of the closing theme -- the one where the first verse is repeated and the piccolo part deleted, and another version in which they extend the keyboard solo a bit.

Now that I think about it more, were the "edited" versions of the theme just heard on the syndicated/nighttime version of the show? I don't seem to recall hearing the edits in the few daytime versions that I have.

Are sure that's just not the gazpacho?

/Hollywood Squares full theme FTW

Reminded by the MTV reruns, Remote Control's theme ended when the show did. And some quick observations in lieu of starting a new thread - spotted Don Bleu on the RC wall of "fame," and Steve played something that resembled the 70s WML? theme (to me anyway) for a category called "What's Their Line?"

-Jason

I don't think RC's theme was really backtimed. It sounds very much like an 8-bar loop with the end stuck on whenever they needed it.

/Example from recent YT upload

The first theme for GSN's Lingo seemed to be the same way: it was a simple 8-bar pattern that was basically the same melody twice, but with a slight variation the second time, followed by the first half of the 8-bar melody in a higher key (and possibly looped as well), then the fanfare tacked on at the end.

Speaking of backtiming, how did Trebek Jeopardy! handle its first theme? The full theme has the main melody in F, A-flat, B, down to D, back up to F, then back to A-flat, with the last three notes and the "dum dum" ending. (Both A-flat portions and the D portion were on sax.) I have seen a couple early eps online, and I don't remember the B or D portions playing during the credits.