Was there a pilot shot for Match Game 85? I have heard that KXTV 10 in Sacramento (then a CBS affiliate) was supposed to carry the show. Have stations already signed on for the version? Before ET revealed Gene's age? Who was supposed to announce? Wasn't it supposed to be shot at Studio 33?

I don't think there was a pilot. In the trade ads, there was just a pic of Gene on a blue background, IIRC. Check the NATPE issues of Broadcasting or Variety for confirmation. I don't think they got as far as choosing announcers, but I would guess either Johnny Olson or Gene Wood would have gotten the nod. Probably would have shot in 33.

The timeline of this intrigues me a bit. At what point was Match Game '85 abandoned to free Gene for his dream job at the helm of Ersatz Break The Bank?
If ET spilling the beans screwed up the MG85 debut (I presume it would have been a December 1984 announcement), was the viewpoint of the BtB85 upper echelon "I don't care how old he is. We want HIM!"......for thirteen weeks.

Was it a sorta mock pilot, Or for real?

I remember reading in a trade magazine as well (this would have been around early '86 or ' early '87) that MG was going to be revived in the fall of '87 as well. Of course, this never happened either.

Do you suppose ET gave out the birthday in December 1986 then and THAT'S the time (not in 1985) when it was decreed that a Match Game with Gene wouldn't sell?

Quite possibly. I wish I knew where these trade magazines were at or what they were called..I don't think it was B&C (was it just known as "Broadcasting" at the time?)..I long pitched them. I shall try and find old
Broadcasting mags sometime to solve this mystery once and for all...

I'm so surprised with as many GS fans as we have here (some older than me), that a firm date for this MG remake was never established.

I wonder if the 1985 that is embedded in our brains comes from some confusion with the reruns airing in '85..

Yep...my college's library had several bound copies, where each "book" consisted of about six months worth of magazines. Used to spend countless hours reading that freshman year. :-)

There was another one that I can't recall as well. I believe it folded around 1987 or so.

The mag you're thinking of is probably Television/Radio Age. Electronic Media was (is?) more of a tabloid sized publication. Both had scads of ads for shows that never were.

From what I remember of this mag (and I do remember TV/Radio age as well), this mag had a chart of the new syndicated shows and when they may premiere.

Incidentally, Brandon, I lived close to a college and looked at Broadcasting all the time. I remember seeing something about the Shafer MG possibly going to syndication but that never materialized of course...

Until I hear it from a reliable source, I'm chalking up this "Gene Rayburn's age on ET" story as so much Internet fanb0i mythology. Do you seriously think there's anyone in the industry who couldn't have estimated Gene's age?

ObGSF: It's not nice to play pranks on the board. One could have one's posting priveleges suspended.

The mystery book I read...I remember a few early-80s copies included ads for a graphic design company, and each ad contained screenshots from their clients' commercials. I remember being very shocked to find screenshots from my current TV station, c. 1981-82.

My college library has nearly all of the run of Broadcasting Magazine. I distinctly remember seeing the ads for the new updated Match Game starring Gene appearing in early 87.

Greg

Someone told that story once during a radio interview, but attributed it to the 1990 revival of MG. Said that old Gene was signed, sealed and delivered, until the producers realized Gene was that old. Tell you the truth, I had no idea he was as old as he was when I was enjoying him on the 7x series.

Oh, and the person in that radio interview? Hardly an Internet hacker. Guy's name was Charles Nelson Reilly.

Good! Then I'm not too crazy then...:)

I wonder if the 1985 year had anything to do with the book "Total Television" listing 1985 as a year that MG was on...When in reality it was just the syndie episodes getting another run in a few spots...

Given their propensity for accuracy, I suspect that is exactly how 1985 came to be considered the target year.

What I've heard from people inside the company is that Bert Convy was their first choice for '90, until he became unavailable for obvious reasons. Gene was not considered for that version. Goodson knew how old Gene was, so I dispute Charles' account of it.

IIRC, Gene appeared on a talk show in the 90s (might have been Geraldo, not sure). He said Mark Goodson pitched the MG '90 pilot to ABC with him as the host. When ET revealed his age, ABC told Goodson "We want a younger guy." I think Art Fleming was on the same show and CNR called in to talk to Gene.

Goodson didn't have a problem with age, the networks did. Rayburn, Cullen, Ludden and Barker all worked for Goodson when they were over 60.

I know this is the story, but I also know this is the story as told by Gene who might have a slightly biased view of the whole thing, you think? It makes for an interesting story, which is what entertainers like Gene and CNR know how to do to elicit sympathy, but to my knowledge no one's ever corroborated it.

I raise the following, though, just because I think it kinda sounds plausible...

Even though Goodson had the final say (for obvious reasons), do you think that if enough of his staff raised a stink over Rayburn's age, would it have been enough to sway him to go somewhere else if indeed he was the first choice?

By 1990 Rayburn had already been let go from Break the Bank, so perhaps some combination of Goodson and ABC agreed that Rayburn's best days were behind him. My memory is dim -- was Mike Brockman at ABC at the time?

Toward the end of the Brett and Charles version, Goodson was unhappy with the show in general and Gene in particular (I read the memo).

That's interesting. Why?

I don't have any credible reasoning as to why Mr. Goodson was unhappy about the show in its final years, but I didn't like the show's final years either.

My reason is that the shows were edited so much (they trimmed down the think music/contestant banter to 2 or 3 seconds). There were many times in which before I could think of a good answer they were already repeating the contestant's response.

/This era of Match Game would make Jeopardy look like Primetime Deal or No Deal in terms of speed.

I agree, the editing of the celebrity banter took a lot of entertainment value out of the show. Also, a lot of the "crazy antics" during those episodes seemed forced...Gene running around the studio as part of his entrance, switching positions with Betty, McLean, Charles, etc.

I couldn't think of the right way to explain why I'm not a fan of the latter episodes, but this about sums it up, so thank you. :-)

I think the editing and the loss of Richard both hurt the show. Richard had great chemistry with the cast, and it was sorely missed when he left. McLean was okay, and so was Bill Daily, but the chemistry just wasn't there like with Richard.

Around the time MG90 premiered, I remember reading a Gene Rayburn interview from (I think) AP where he claimed he openly lobbied to host the show (not sure if this was before or after Convy pulled out), but was turned down for being "too old," then claimed "Entertainment Tonight" revealing his age to the world ruined his career. He also criticized Ross Shafer's hosting of the show.

It's odd that Rayburn would openly complain about his age being revealed to the world when, for years, his age was revealed at least once a year in the AP's "This Day in History/Happy Birthday" release, and was published in numerous newspapers and broadcast on numerous radio and TV stations. It certainly could not be a secret in Hollywood.

While age may have been a factor in Rayburn not getting the chance to host revivals in 1987 and 1990, I have to wonder if he brought himself down for becoming cantankerous and difficult in his later years. Perhaps he had a reputation in the 60s and 70s, but little has been revealed. What's known about his "negative reputation" seem to focus on the 80s and 90s. (MG/HS battles over Jon Bauman and show quality, leaving BtB85, interviews over the "ET incident" and MG90, openly criticizing his successors, etc.)

While awaiting Chris's response, I wonder if it's how the drinks hit them. In earlier years, they would be tipsy and delightful. In the syndicated years, they looked tired. Gene seemed to go through the motions, letting the game slide. He did seem to get a huge kick out of McLean. I do, too, but McLean never really shifted into game mode like other panelists did.

Remember Goodson wasn't (allegedly) particularly happy with the show's humor to begin with.

The last couple of years were pretty bad, but mostly because there weren't any "new" additions to the panel that people liked. I mean, I know people here liked McLean, but by 1981, he pretty much carried the stench of failure with him, deserved or not. And the show needed a little influx of youth -- when the show started, irregulars like Elaine Joyce, Fannie Flagg, and Patti Deutsch were still in their late 20s, but by the end, who was really young? Debralee Scott?

I can see how people missed Gene's age -- anyone who had been in the business for awhile should have been able to piece together he was at least in his 60s, but I don't think they thought he was 70 in 1987. There were no 70-year-old hosts at that point.

IMHO, if anything hurt Gene's career. or brought his chances down on hosting another MG revival, it would have been his performance on the Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour. Granted, the quality of the show wasn't as good, and they had a lot more stiffs on MGHSH than the on 7x run...

MGHS had nothing to do with that. Trade magazine ads for a new version with Gene as host ran during a subsequent NATPE. A good portion of this forum is surmising now it must have been for fall 87. That makes sense because Goodson had TPIR in strip syndication for 85-86 and Card Sharks for 86-87.

I'm trying to remember but drawing a blank (no pun intended)...were there any new Goodson offerings for 87-88? I know Feud debuted in syndication in 88-89...

When was TKO set for?

1988 or '89 IIRC.

ETA: pilot taped in November '89, so it looks like 1990.

Didn't Goodson originally try to push Feud for fall-1987? I thought I read somewhere he wanted to, but it got pushed back. Or maybe I'm thinking he wanted it to replace Blackout in spring-1988?

Really? I recall seeing a 1990 date on it.

I remember coming across that somewhere, too. I always found it odd that $25K Pyramid came back "due to popular demand" only to be yanked a few months later.....I had no idea what a "stopgap" was at 13 years of age...

In November of 87 the NBC O&O's announced a deal for the new Feud from LBS to replace its sitcom checkerboard in Sept of 88. At the time there was speculation that Goodson would try to obtain a network daytime berth for the show. There was also a rerun package of Dawson Feud starting in the fall of 85 from Viacom.

I believe one of the stations airing that was (W)WOR-9 in the NYC market, putting it at 8:30pm right after its 8pm news. It carried the title "Best of Family Feud" IIRC...

That package of nighttime Feud repeats ran on WETO (now WEMT) in my hometown market of the Tri-Cities, TN/VA. It was indeed listed as "Best of..." and when GSN added the nighttime version to its schedule in 1999 or 2000, its listings also carried that title.

Greg

Now that makes all kinds of sense. It sounds like Gene was being facetious in blaming ET for ruining his career. Goodson knew how old Rayburn was. Gene was sort of done after he sleepwalked his way through BTB. Naturally the fanb0iz took Gene's statement as gospel and it is now enshrined as part of Internet mythology.

The memo I saw was written before MG was cancelled by CBS. Goodson felt there were too many hijinks and didn't like Gene's "unbuttoned attitude". Goodson predicted the show would soon be cancelled, which it was. It's possible that Goodson had soured on Rayburn after the '70s/'80s version was cancelled, thinking it was partly Gene's fault, and wasn't too keen on his MG/HS performance.

I remember seeing episodes of FF in the late '80s at 2:30 am on KNBC after the repeat of their 11 pm news. They also ran Crosswits and Classic Concentration in that time slot. After Later with Bob Costas I would tune to Charlie Rose on CBS. It was a short-lived golden era with Tonight, Letterman, Later and Charlie Rose in the same evening.

Didn't Goodson always oppose the idea of playing MG for laughs though? He was surely smart enough to realize Gene inadvertantly and effectively saved him from a 13-week failure in 1973 by insisting it be played for laughs. Being the highest rated show on daytime is no small feat; I'd also imagine that if Goodson hated that direction so much, he wouldn't have wanted Gene back in 1983, 1987 and 1990 and what we saw with Ross Shafer would have been very different.

I wouldn't totally blame Gene for Break the Bank failing. That show was an utter disaster, and this is coming from someone who got twisted enjoyment out of Eubanks Dollar a Second.

Which also begs the question: why not have Marshall host the Squares segment of MG/HS and have someone else host the MG portion? (Possible answers: Marshall had just failed with Fantasy, Goodson was unused to working with Marshall, Goodson always brought the original host back unless bridges had been napalmed {see Dawson, Richard}.)

I'm going to throw something else in there. Gene said himself (to someone, I forget whom) that he wished he'd moved out to California rather than commuting. I've got to think, after having just gone through 9+ years of biweekly flights from New York, Gene was pretty exhausted (and Helen was pretty sick of that). He looked real happy doing Saturday Morning Live in the few times I caught it... he might have been better off sticking with that rather than going into MG/HS.

Is there any weight to Gene Wood's comment that Rayburn was 'dragged kicking and screaming into the hour?' I've always taken that to mean he had a contract with Goodson that made him unable to refuse the spot.

Fall of '87 it is.

13 new shows were showcased at NATPE '87. 6 made it: High Rollers, Win, Lose or Draw, Split Second (Dec. 86 start), Lingo, Home Shopping Game (Summer 87 start, off by September) and Truth or Consequences. 7 did not: Gambit, Late Night Lotto, The New Dream House, Match Game, Secrets and Rumors [hosted by Harvey Korman], Trivial Pursuit and Can You Top This?.

According to the expert summary, the two winners were going to be Truth and Win. Million Dollar Chance of a Lifetime was on the bubble, and most stations took Truth as its replacement, sealing its fate. High Rollers and Secrets were given at least a 50/50 chance, and it retrospect 50/50 was right. Home Shopping Game was either going to "[be] the next form of television" or "not do well at all."

I also saw a trade ad for 130 episodes of Press Your Luck. There was no indication whether those were new episodes or just reruns.


--Mike

Great find!

I wonder if anyone knows if it went to pilot? Chris C?

Did you find any other cool ads with shows coming soon? I always loved those, and would sometimes spend hours in the library searching for them . (Bonus answer : Yes, I know I'm a dork.)

Cool ad. But if I'm a station manager on January 1, 1987 with any kind of memory, I'm looking at the same old logo and what looks like a prettty old of Gene (he looks a lot younger here than he did in MG/HS, and that sport jacket was totally out of style by the late '80s) and I'd be asking, "Have they thought this out at all, or is this going to be the same old stuff that didn't do well the last time we aired it?"

You can stop right there. Most Stat Mgrs are morons with no memory whatsoever.

And I'd counter to say that if the S.Mgr had a memory, he'd rather run with something that was tried, tested, and successful, than a complete unknown format. But who knows? Lingo made it, and Gambit and Match did not.

Really? I ought to apply for a station manager position -- admittedly, I only have half the (dis)qualifications mentioned above.

"Duh, don't try nuttin' funny. Ya can't fool me, cause I'm a moron!"

A bit off topic but I wonder who, if anyone, was pictured in ads for 'The Nightime Price Is Right' in '85.

Tom Kennedy in two pics. I remember seeing them in Variety magazine.

But goddamn if they don't look good shaking hands in a suit, don't they?